diff --git a/include/pybind11/cast.h b/include/pybind11/cast.h
index e3c8b9f65..ebbe6c364 100644
--- a/include/pybind11/cast.h
+++ b/include/pybind11/cast.h
@@ -1570,9 +1570,9 @@ class argument_loader {
     using indices = make_index_sequence<sizeof...(Args)>;
 
     template <typename Arg>
-    using argument_is_args = std::is_base_of<args, intrinsic_t<Arg>>;
+    using argument_is_args = all_of<std::is_base_of<args, intrinsic_t<Arg>>, negation<std::is_pointer<Arg>>>;
     template <typename Arg>
-    using argument_is_kwargs = std::is_base_of<kwargs, intrinsic_t<Arg>>;
+    using argument_is_kwargs = all_of<std::is_base_of<kwargs, intrinsic_t<Arg>>, negation<std::is_pointer<Arg>>>;
     // Get kwargs argument position, or -1 if not present:
     static constexpr auto kwargs_pos = constexpr_last<argument_is_kwargs, Args...>();
 
diff --git a/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.cpp b/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.cpp
index 09036ccd5..a1a57ded6 100644
--- a/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.cpp
+++ b/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.cpp
@@ -21,6 +21,33 @@ class ArgsSubclass : public py::args {
 class KWArgsSubclass : public py::kwargs {
     using py::kwargs::kwargs;
 };
+class MoveOrCopyInt {
+public:
+    MoveOrCopyInt() { print_default_created(this); }
+    explicit MoveOrCopyInt(int v) : value{v} { print_created(this, value); }
+    MoveOrCopyInt(MoveOrCopyInt &&m) noexcept {
+        print_move_created(this, m.value);
+        std::swap(value, m.value);
+    }
+    MoveOrCopyInt &operator=(MoveOrCopyInt &&m) noexcept {
+        print_move_assigned(this, m.value);
+        std::swap(value, m.value);
+        return *this;
+    }
+    MoveOrCopyInt(const MoveOrCopyInt &c) {
+        print_copy_created(this, c.value);
+        // NOLINTNEXTLINE(cppcoreguidelines-prefer-member-initializer)
+        value = c.value;
+    }
+    MoveOrCopyInt &operator=(const MoveOrCopyInt &c) {
+        print_copy_assigned(this, c.value);
+        value = c.value;
+        return *this;
+    }
+    ~MoveOrCopyInt() { print_destroyed(this); }
+
+    int value;
+};
 namespace pybind11 {
 namespace detail {
 template <>
@@ -31,6 +58,19 @@ template <>
 struct handle_type_name<KWArgsSubclass> {
     static constexpr auto name = const_name("**KWArgs");
 };
+template <>
+struct type_caster<MoveOrCopyInt> {
+    PYBIND11_TYPE_CASTER(MoveOrCopyInt*, const_name("MoveOrCopyInt"));
+    bool load(handle src, bool) {
+        auto as_class = MoveOrCopyInt(src.cast<int>());
+        value = &as_class;
+        return true;
+    }
+    static handle cast(int v, return_value_policy r, handle p) {
+        auto as_class = MoveOrCopyInt(v);
+        return pybind11::handle(as_class, r, p);
+    }
+};
 } // namespace detail
 } // namespace pybind11
 
@@ -348,4 +388,10 @@ TEST_SUBMODULE(kwargs_and_defaults, m) {
           [](const ArgsSubclass &args, const KWArgsSubclass &kwargs) {
               return py::make_tuple(args, kwargs);
           });
+
+    // Test that support for args and kwargs subclasses skips checking arguments passed in as pointers
+    m.def("args_kwargs_subclass_function_with_pointer_arg",
+          [](MoveOrCopyInt* pointer, const ArgsSubclass &args, const KWArgsSubclass &kwargs) {
+              return py::make_tuple(pointer->value, args, kwargs);
+          });
 }
diff --git a/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.py b/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.py
index e3f758165..8bc086c2c 100644
--- a/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.py
+++ b/tests/test_kwargs_and_defaults.py
@@ -21,6 +21,10 @@ def test_function_signatures(doc):
         doc(m.args_kwargs_subclass_function)
         == "args_kwargs_subclass_function(*Args, **KWArgs) -> tuple"
     )
+    assert (
+        doc(m.args_kwargs_subclass_function_with_pointer_arg)
+        == "args_kwargs_subclass_function_with_pointer_arg(arg0: NotArgsOrKWArgsClass, *Args, **KWArgs) -> tuple"
+    )
     assert (
         doc(m.KWClass.foo0)
         == "foo0(self: m.kwargs_and_defaults.KWClass, arg0: int, arg1: float) -> None"
@@ -103,6 +107,7 @@ def test_arg_and_kwargs():
     kwargs = {"arg3": "a3", "arg4": 4}
     assert m.args_kwargs_function(*args, **kwargs) == (args, kwargs)
     assert m.args_kwargs_subclass_function(*args, **kwargs) == (args, kwargs)
+    assert m.args_kwargs_subclass_function_with_pointer_arg(10, *args, **kwargs) == (10, args, kwargs)
 
 
 def test_mixed_args_and_kwargs(msg):
@@ -424,6 +429,13 @@ def test_args_refcount():
     )
     assert refcount(myval) == expected
 
+    assert m.args_kwargs_subclass_function_with_pointer_arg(7, 8, myval, a=1, b=myval) == (
+        7,
+        (8, myval),
+        {"a": 1, "b": myval},
+    )
+    assert refcount(myval) == expected
+
     exp3 = refcount(myval, myval, myval)
     assert m.args_refcount(myval, myval, myval) == (exp3, exp3, exp3)
     assert refcount(myval) == expected